Talk:Fang Gow (Earth-Two)
First appearance Is Fang Gow's first appearance in (as it says under "First Appearance") or (as it says in the notes)? Shadzane (talk) 16:12, July 30, 2014 (UTC) :Unclear. I've come across several first appearance disputes for New Fun, but those early issues aren't available digitally, or only in really crappy fiche scans. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 16:21, July 30, 2014 (UTC) ::Is this helping? https://www.comicbookreligion.com/?s=25906 --Lucien61 (talk) 17:06, July 30, 2014 (UTC) :::CBRel is not the best resource. Maybe the crux is in the comment "voice only" - his voice appears in #1, but he himself doesn't until #5? --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 17:19, July 30, 2014 (UTC) Pre-Crisis How is the Note about Fang Gow being made "apocryphal" by the 1986 COIE rebooting a necessary and relevant part of his history, while the follow-on note about the subsequent rebootings is not? Stoop Davy Dave (talk) 20:17, July 30, 2014 (UTC) :All the subsequent post-Crisis reboots are not going to bring back this exact Fang Gow, the Fang Gow of Earth-Two. Even if some writer decides to write Fang Gow back in to the current post-Flashpoint universe, he will be Fang Gow (Prime Earth). Shadzane (talk) 21:16, July 30, 2014 (UTC) ::If all Earth-Two characters have this blurb on their character pages (and Al Pratt and Lee Travis, just to pick two random examples, do not), then the thing about "this exact version" would ring more true. But I must admit, the blurb does start with "This version of". So maybe I'm overreacting, but it looked to me like there was a pungent subtext of "this embarrassingly racist and blatantly ripped-off character must be forgotten," despite his historical significance and whatnot. But I could easily be wrong, as I often am. Never mind. Stoop Davy Dave (talk) 02:59, July 31, 2014 (UTC) :::The way I understand it, there are three types of Earth-Two characters: :::1. Characters who have not appeared since Crisis (like Fang Gow). They get the Precrisis blurb. :::2. Characters who were definitely rebooted, so they have both an Earth-Two and a New Earth page. Their Earth-Two page also gets the Precrisis blurb. :::3. Characters who were brought from Earth-Two to the post-Crisis relatively intact, with just minor changes (like Al Pratt). They only have one page marked New Earth, and they get the Multicont Earth-Two blurb instead. :::Shadzane (talk) 17:44, July 31, 2014 (UTC) :::: Here's the rub: "and is now considered apocryphal." As if these fictional characters and stories are even more fictional than the "non-apocryphal" characters and stories, when all that's different about them is that they took place in a different fictional universe. It's a gratuitous and demeaning epitaph to the careers of a wide variety, and large number (as you're apparently finding out right now), of golden age characters, many of which are no less viable or no more ridiculous than many characters currently appearing in comics. Stoop Davy Dave (talk) 01:09, August 1, 2014 (UTC) :::::Yeah, I've always thought that was a little harsh too. Especially now that the post-Crisis "New Earth" is just as apocryphal, in the current post-Flashpoint status quo. Shadzane (talk) 01:33, August 1, 2014 (UTC) ::::::To probably misquote Alan Moore: "They're ALL imaginary stories." Stoop Davy Dave (talk) 02:03, August 1, 2014 (UTC) :::::::From the late '80s until Infinite Crisis or maybe a little earlier with the advent of Hypertime, DC was trying really hard to convince its readers that Earth-Two never existed. So, the idea of those characters being apocryphal was burned into our brains. It makes sense that early on this site would still reflect this mentality. I agree that the Apochryphal and Pre-Crisis categories are no longer especially useful. DrJohnnyDiablo (talk) 02:41, August 1, 2014 (UTC) :::::::: What, if anything, can be done about it? Stoop Davy Dave (talk) 10:34, August 1, 2014 (UTC) ::::::::: I think we just need to rewrite the template. I will make some suggestions about that over on the talk page for Template:Precrisis. Shadzane (talk) 16:52, August 1, 2014 (UTC) DC Universe Fang Gow is designated the first super-villain of Earth-Two, i.e. of the DC Universe. First villain in a DC comic? Fine with me. But first DCU villain? As far as I know, neither Barry O´Neill nor Fang Gow did ever appear in a DCU context, i.e. were ever interacting with other confirmed DCU characters. A minor point, surely, but worth mentioning since many other characters took decades to join the DCU proper - retroactively, that is. And Barry is one of the not so few who, until now, has not done so. --Lucien61 (talk) 16:26, August 2, 2014 (UTC) : Well, he lived on Earth-Two, or at least his character page designates him as an Earth-Two denizen. Most of his evil work was done in secrecy, so it's not surprising that very few other Earth-Two natives knew of his activities or even his existence. Is there a rule that says he needs to team up with Vandal Savage or get busted by the Justice Society to "count" as an Earth-Two character? : You DO make a good point, and it may be less minor than you say. I certainly don't have a good rebuttal for it. : But if he's NOT the first super-villain of Earth-Two, who is? Stoop Davy Dave (talk) 23:36, August 2, 2014 (UTC) ::He may well be it and is certainly a very good candidate. I am just waiting for Barry O´Neill and/or Fang Gow to be properly connected to the DCU which is all about interaction. Same goes for characters like Penniless Palmer or Rodeo Rick. And for most, if not all, stories in the horror and sf anthologies. (Now there´s a challenge!) --Lucien61 (talk) 08:47, August 4, 2014 (UTC) ::: Hm. To weasel out of that challenge, I'd need to articulate a reason, or a decision-rule for doing so. That would be something like: Penniless Palmer and Rodeo Rick, and the one-shot horror and SF characters, are not involved in (a) ongoing (b) adventure-type series(es) of stories. Yeah, that's the ticket. The whole category of "super-villain" is more or less exclusively confined to action/adventure/detective stories. And the potential for crossover appearances, while never realized, always existed. There were precedents for it. If Sandy Keene from Radio Squad could cross over to appear in Federal Men (New Adventure Comics #26, May 1938), and if Socko Strong could appear in Biff Bronson (Adventure Comics #45, Dec 1939), then potentially theoretically hypothetically it was possible for any DC-owned character to appear in any other DC-owned character's ongoing adventure-type series, right from the git-go. Stoop Davy Dave (talk) 11:28, August 4, 2014 (UTC)